RENEE BRADLEY
I'm glad to see so many people back this morning and if you are
anything like I was last night I went home and my head was just
like reeling from all the information from all the sessions.
So, I'm glad everyone's back. This is a tape session this morning
so, um, we're gonna ask you to please be careful of your, um,
Q and As. Uh, save those 'til the very end. And I've already
warned our panel up here that we're gonna be fairly strict on
their, um, time limits as we go this morning. So welcome to the
session on, uh, Is LD Real? Is There A Benefit? I'm Renee Bradley
and I'm your moderator for this session this morning. During
the session we'll hear a 28 minute presentation by the author
of this issue paper, followed by eight minute presentations from
the issue paper respondents. There will be a 30 minute period
for question and answer at the end of the session. In order to
provide ample time for the presentation please reserve your questions
until the end. Our first speaker this morning is Dr. Douglas
Fuchs who is a professor in the Department Of Special Education
at Peabody College of Vanderbilt University, where he codirects
the Kennedy Center's Institute On Learning Accommodations For
Persons With Disabilities, and Peabody College's Reading Clinic.
He and his wife Lynn Fuchs are coeditors of the National Center,
codirectors of the National Center For Accelerating Student Learning,
a US Department Of Education funded five year collaboration with
Columbia University, the University Of Maryland, to develop more
effective instructional methods and materials for children with
severe learning disability. Dr. Fuchs has more than 175 publications
in peer review journals.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
Hi everybody. Um, I, uh, I was talking yesterday with, um, a
couple of people actually from Delaware, um, and, uh, we were
talking among other things about, um, the beautiful beaches that
can you hear me by the way? The beautiful beaches of Delaware,
uh, where Lynn and I have gone to vacation some of you know for
the past 19 years. And, um, after speaking with him I was reminded
of a story, um, which I'll share with you. Uh, it concerns not,
uh, the beaches of Delaware but a beach in, um, in Southern California
Huntington Beach. These two, uh, retired, uh, special education
teachers, uh, two special education teachers from New York City
decided to retire together, to, uh, (COUGH) to the Huntington
Beach area in California. And, um, everyday, every, early morning
they would get into this routine of walking on the beautiful beach,
uh, with their dogs. And, uh, one morning, uh, the guy with the,
uh, German shepherd said, hey isn't that a new restaurant over
there? And the other guy said yeah I think it is and, the first
guy said well let's go check it out. And the second guy said
well we've got our dogs with us. The first guy said well, that's
okay, just follow my lead. And so they walk up to this new restaurant
and the guy with the shepherd walks right through the door, and
the maitre d' comes rushing over and says hey what are you doing,
you can't come in here with a dog. You know better than that.
And the, and the guy says, um, well hold on, hold on. You don't
understand. Uh, I'm blind, and I need this dog to get around.
The maitre d' backed off, decided to be politically correct,
and showed the man to his seat.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
The second guy's watching this and walks through the door and
the maitre d' comes rushing up and says the same thing what are
you doing here, you know, the guy says you don't understand I'm
blind I need this dog to see. The maitre d' looks at the dog,
and back at the guy and says, um, a chihuahua? And the guy says
a chihuahua? Is that what they gave me? (LAUGHTER) Now what
does this have to do with today's session? Nothing. I actually
had (WORD?) material, I had Bob Pasternack said yesterday brought,
uh, from, from Frank Russian but since we're taping I decided
to go with the, the milder stuff. Um, uh, what I'd like to do
is share with you, uh, findings from a med analysis that, that
we conducted some time ago at Vanderbilt University. But, I'd
like to put it in context and share with you, um, uh, a rendition
of, of the past 30 years. Uh, uh, of learning disabilities.
And, um, my good friend Louisa Moats is going to take issue with
it. And I think that's good. Uh, 'cause I think what we need
is discussions about alternate perspectives and, uh, I believe
that, uh, good discussion of alternate perspectives is, uh, is
something that we need to move forward. And I think everyone
agrees we do need to forward. Okay. So bear with me. Um, throughout
the 1970s, most practitioners, parents and academics firmly believed
that learning disabilities represented a discrete classification
of exceptionality, uh, marked by two unique features. Unexpected
learning failure, and specific learning failure. The child with
unexpected learning failure was perceived by parents and teachers
as generally competent. The learning difficulty was both surprising
and puzzling.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
Specific learning failure suggested neurological dysfunction and
processing deficits which were presumed to cause severe problems
in reading, writing or math. There were at least two reasons
to view unexpected, oh you know what? Don't. Um, we didn't get
a chance to rehearse. Um, okay. So there were at least two reasons
to view unexpected and specific learning failure as a conceptual
anchor and rallying cry for the field. First as far back as the
nine, as the 1890s physicians (SOUNDS LIKE) W. Pringle Morgan
and John Henchelwood (SP?) separately described a seemingly paradoxical
inability of some children of average and superior intelligence
to master academic concepts. A phenomenon, uh, described or documented
more extensively by another physician Samual Orton (SP?) in the,
uh, 1920s and '30s. I'm and, uh, Dan Hallahand (SP?) and, uh,
Cecil Mercer's (SP?) paper is, uh, a wonderful, uh, description
of the history of learning disabilities. I urge you to read it.
Second in, in 1975, Rutter (SP?) and Uell (SP?) reported findings
from an epidemiological study, that seemed to buttress the clinical
observations of Morgan Henchelwood and Orton. Rutter and Uell
measured the IQ and reading performance of all nine and 14 year
olds on the Isle of White.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
The researchers regressed the children's IQ scores on their reading
scores to produce a distribution of IQ predicted reading performance.
Scores above the mean represented overachievement. That is,
exceeding predictions. Scores below the mean indicated underachievement.
That is, beneath prediction. Whereas such a distribution should
resemble a Gaussian curve, with overachievement occurring as frequently
as underachievement, Rutter and Uell reported a hump at the lower
end of the distribution. Which according to the investigators
indicated that extreme degrees of reading achievement occur at
a greater rate than should be expected. When Rutter and Uell
compared the underachievers to the children whose low reading
performance was commensurate with their equally low IQ scores,
that is low achievers, they found that the underachievers were
different in terms of sex distribution and neurological disorder,
and had a worse prognosis for reading and spelling, and a better
prognosis for mathematics. All this led Rutter and Uell to suggest
that the group of underachievers was distinctly different from
the group of low achievers. Findings appeared to confirm, unexpected
and specific learning failure as a valid marker of students with
learning disabilities. (STAMMERS) To be sure there have been
long standing concerns about the prevalence and nature of learning
disabilities, beginning with Morgan and Henchelwood, and some
of these concerns were very much alive and well (STAMMERS) in
the 1970s. But they percolated more or less quietly. In the
US Office Of Education, State Education agencies, and academe
until the 1980s. Then two things happened, to cause a much greater
number of educators and politicians to question the validity of
the LD construct. First, there was a dramatic increase in special
education enrollment and cost. Developments that did not escape
the attentions of school boards, school superintendents, politicians,
and other stakeholders in public education, some of whom began
calling for an immediate downsizing of special education.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
Another event dramatizing and deepening LD concerns was the Regular
Education Initiative, uh, a reform movement both bold and comprehensive
in design. The REI's distinctiveness was it's aim of transforming
general education into a more instructionally responsive system,
capable of accommodating a large majority of children with disabilities,
and thereby reducing the size and cost of special education.
The adaptive learning environment's model reciprocal teaching,
uh, cooperative learning, and other instructional programs designed
for mainstream classrooms, were advanced as proving means, uh,
to such an ambitious end. REI advocates believed that the remaking
of general education would require massive professional development,
and a redefinition of the role of special educators. Away from
direct service, and toward collaborative consultation and co-teaching
along side classroom teachers. REI backers viewed children with
learning disabilities as most appropriate among all children with
disabilities, uh, for placement in reformed classrooms. Among
several reasons for this was that students with LD were understood
by many to represent the mildest form of disability, and therefore
they were seen as having the best chance of making it in the mainstream.
When LD advocates expressed skepticism about regular education's
willingness and ability to accommodate the unique learning needs
of many students with disabilities, a central assumption of REI
supporters, a vigorous debate ensued. This in turn further politicized
the LD construct as well as a good portion of LD research which
deliberately or otherwise, contributed to the growing perception
that LD was an invalid category of exceptionality. At, at least
three lines of research in the 1980s addressed the LD construct.
The first documented considerable variation in LD definitions
and operationalization across the states.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
A popular and provocative way of expressing the findings from
this work was to say something like, a child qualifying as LD
in one state very well may have been excluded from the category
in a neighboring state, because of varying state regulations.
Second, related work showed that many teachers purposely disregarded
definitional rules and regulations to ensure special education
for their students. Uh, um, uh, Don MacMillan and Gary Siperstein
have a paper, uh, uh, a white paper, uh, that describes, uh, much
of their work in this area and it's excellent. Um, Jay Gottlieb
(SP?), another, uh, person who worked, uh, very well in this area.
Jay Gottlieb and his associates, uh, in one study randomly selected
135 children with LD from six school districts in New York City.
90 percent of this group received some form of public assistance.
The mean IQ of the group, 81. Such scores, as well as teacher
interviews, indicated to Gottlieb and colleagues that quote, children
classified as learning disabled exhibited a generalized failure
in their academic work, rather than specific inefficiencies of
cognitive processes, unquote. Only 15 percent of Gottlieb et
al's, uh, uh, sample met conventional identification criteria.
A third area of research in the 1980s reported considerable overlapping
performance, on various aptitude and educational tests between,
uh, low achievers, sorry, yeah, between low achievers with and
without the LD label. Isobike (SP?) and colleagues and others
concluded from this work that virtually no important educational
difference existed between students with LD and garden variety
poor achievers.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
In aggregate, the research on the variability of State definitions
of LD, teachers' disregard for these definitions, and the overlapping
performance between low achievers with and without the LD label,
promoted a widely held view, that an LD designation was essentially
arbitrary. And that low achievers with and without the label,
were the same kinds of kids. In the 1990s an NICHD group became
the most important voice expressing dissatisfaction with current
LD definitions. The NICHD group refers primarily to the principle
investigators of NIH funded learning disability centers and to
the branch chief who, uh, who supervises and coordinates their
work, Reed Lions (SP?). Uh, our descriptive for this group is
admittedly imprecise because we include researchers without NIH
funding who have conducted similar research, and we have no reason
to believe everyone in the so-called NICHD group thinks alike
on all issue. Nevertheless the group's work is sufficiently cohesive
and important, uh, to regard it as an entity. The NICHD group
is different from the REI advocates in many ways. The NICHD group
for example focuses exclusively on reading disabilities. REI
supporters focused on the broad range of learning disabilities.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
Perhaps the most important difference between the groups is that
the NICHD group claims to recognize the legitimacy of the LD construct.
(STAMMERS) Lion et al have written, quote, few would disagree
that five percent or more of our school age population experience
difficulties with language, and other skills that would be disruptive
to academic achievement. The construct of LD is valid, unquote.
What is invalid they say, are the definitions and operationalizations
of the construct, which they insist must be reconceptualized.
At the top of their list, is, uh, IQ/achievement discrepancy.
Uh, the NICHD group's principal, I'm sorry many, many concerns
exist about IQ/achievement discrepancy as a definition of learning
disabilities. The NICHD group's principal focus in terms of IQ
discrepancy, has been to explore the criteria and validity of
what they call the two group hypothesis. That is the belief that
qualitative differences exist between children whose poor reading
is discrepant from their IQ and children whose poor reading is
not discrepant from their IQ. The NICHD group has conducted at
least four large scale studies, uh, on IQ discrepancy, and the
validity of the two group hypothesis. Their studies are noteworthy
for their researcher defined samples, their broad selection of
concurrent child (WORD?) and the systematicity with which the
studies tend to build on each other. Each of these studies failed
to support the two group hypothesis. Moreover, the NICHD group
states that professional preoccupation with IQ, obscures significant
advances achieved over the last 15 years in the field of reading
research, to identify domain specific factors that are more potent
than all purpose measures like IQ, uh, in helping understanding
reading failure.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
One important domain specific factor according to the NICHD group
is phonological processing. According to Fletcher, Morris (SP?)
et al, uh, Siegel (SP?), Stanovitch (SP?), Torgesen et al, Vellutino
(SP?) et al, Wagner (SP?) et al, and others, phonological processing
figures prominently among the information processing operations
believed to underlie severe problems in word recognition. The
NICHD group claims that phonological deficit should be recognized
as a valid LD marker. Further, they estimate about 25 percent
of the student population demonstrates phonological deficits.
25 percent, uh, an argue that all of these children should be
understood as reading disabled. 25 percent of 50 million school
going children, represents 12 and a half million students. Together
with approximately three million, uh, special needs students who
are not LD, this recommendation produces a population of students
with disabilities of about 15 and a half million. Or, two and
a half times the number currently served under IDEA. With 12
and a half million children identified as LD, one might expect
strong political pressure to reconceptualize this large group
in terms of non-disabled students, in need of more effective general
education. The key to more effective, uh, instruction, says the
NICHD group is early identification and prevention. Early identification
and prevention they say should occur in general education. Lion
et al write, given that the underlying causes of most reading
difficulties are similar, for children regardless of whether they
are currently served in special or compensatory education programs,
we argue that the most valid and efficient way to deliver this
early intervention in reading, is as part of regular education.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
Many of the NICHD groups views about policy recommendations for
children with LD, and more generally for special education, are
strikingly similar, to those advanced by REI adherents in the
1980s. Both groups A, are critical of special education effectiveness
B, recommend that special education dollars be combined with Title
one dollars, to support the professional development, to support
the professional development necessary to strengthen general education's
capacity to accommodate all low achievers. And C, uh, promote
the notion that special educators' roles must change. REI adherents
argued that special educators should become consultants and co-teachers,
the NICHD group recommends that they become heavily involved in
early identification and prevention. Most importantly both groups
view low achieving children with and without the LD label as the
same children. For the NICHD group, all low achievers are LD.
For the REI group, all children with LD, are low achievers.
Although the NICHD group claims to believe in the validity of
the LD construct, it's critique of LD definitions and operationalizations,
seems to suggest otherwise. The NICHD group's dismissal of the
distinction between low achievers with and without the LD label
encourages a reconceptualization of children with LD, a subfunction
of this group, into a much larger non-disabled group. That is,
the 12 and a half million poor readers who it's argued, require
early identification and prevention in general education. Therefore
statements of support for the LD construct not withstanding, the
NICHD group, like the REI group before it, appears to be arguing
against the continuation of the LD category. Um, Louisa who's
work I, I, greatly admire, uh, will suggest to you that I've misunderstood
the NICHD position.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
If I have, I have come by this misunderstanding honestly. Uh,
I've read, uh, many of their papers. Uh, a couple more than once,
and, um, I, and I've read them without prejudice. Um, so if I
have misunderstood the message, with all due respect the message
perhaps should be sharpened. Um, so, uh, that's the, that's the
context. Um, and, it's a context in sum or in short, that leaves
us with a predominant view, that, um, that, children with the
label are very difficult to distinguish from children without
the label. Uh, the purpose of our med analysis, was to use school
identified LD children not researcher identified but school identified,
to determine whether low achievers with and without the school
given label, are the same or different. Okay. Now you can put
up. Uh, these are my coauthors. We worked for three years on
this project. Um, and, um, I'm indebted to their work. Okay,
next. Uh, meta-analysis, uh, as, as many of you know, is, a is
a technique to try to summarize usually a large body of work.
One of the key distinctions of meta-analysis is that, um, you
can, transform findings across many, many studies into a common
metric.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
A set size, uh, that permits you to aggregate these studies, aggregate
the findings of these studies in a way that you can't do using
other qualitative or quantitative methods. Um, we conducted an
exhaustive and exhausting search of the literature, that, uh,
included, uh, a hand search of 232, uh, volumes of Peer Review
Journal. And, and Eric, searched, uh, a dissertation abstract
search and ancestral research, uh, the details of which are, are
in the White Paper. Um, and we found, uh, 86 studies which were
then reduced to 79 in our data analysis, uh, process. Each of
these studies included, um, or compared (STAMMERS), uh, low achievers
with and without the LD label in the area of reading performance.
Okay, yeah. Um, we found, uh, you, you can sort of ignore that
'cause it's gonna mislead you a little. Uh, we, we found a set
of qualitative differences between the two groups, and quantitative
differences. Uh, usually in meta-analysis you, you, you talk
about the (STAMMERS), you talk about the, uh, the, uh, uh, well
all right I'll do it (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Uh, the, the qualitative
differences which I can't, I don't have time to get into but which
are, I think very interesting. Uh, what were that, the (STAMMERS)
the differences between the two groups, I'm sorry. I'm, let me,
let me do it differently. Um, we found differences, um, in both
degree and kind between the two groups. Okay? Next slide, or
overhead. Um, the differences in degree were children without
the LD low achievers without the LD label, were about six tenths
of a standard deviation better, than children with the LD label.
Um, what that shows you is that another way of saying that, is
that children, um, with, uh, without the LD label, uh, that (STAMMERS)
roughly 73 percent of children without the label performed better
than, uh, the average score of children with the label. Uh, so
it's a, reasonably strong difference between the two groups.
Um, we found that this difference, this six tenths of a standard
deviation difference grew when we considered, um, how the children
performed on timed tests verses untimed tests.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
Uh, children with the label performed more than one standard deviation
below the children without the label, when the tests were timed.
Suggesting, that, um, fluency, or automaticity, problems, um,
accentuate the difference between the two groups. Um, we also
found and Don is going to talk a little bit about this in his
remarks, that as children aged, (STAMMERS) children with the label
in higher grades, uh, did, uh, performed worse, uh, than, uh,
children with the label in younger grades. Again about a standard
deviation, this grew to about a standard deviation difference
between the two groups. Um, okay, next slide. Um, if you'd just
cover up just, just the, um, the title, it'd be great. Um, thanks.
When thinking about the, the six tenths of a standard deviation
difference, um, uh, some people say well, you know, um, if, if
we find the difference in degree, ignoring the, the differences,
the, the possible differences we found in kind, the qualitative
differences, focusing just on the quantitative differences, some
people say, well, um, it's a it's a difference in you know, in,
in degree but it doesn't qualify as a specific learning disability.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
It doesn't, it doesn't have that connotation of specific learning
disability and so, the effect is to try to I think, and I've got
no particular person or group in, in mind but I mean I, the reaction
sometimes is, well you know it, it, it's not it's not all that
important. Um, it's not as important as finding a qualitative
difference. But the quantitative difference I would argue is
important just the way quantitative differences are important
when we think of obesity, and hypertension. And deafness and
blindness, all of these disorders and disabilities, are defined
by degree. Uh, and, at some point a difference in degree seems
to become a difference, a difference in kind. Um, next slide.
Uh, and, and, actually (UNINTELLIGIBLE), um, Michael Bernoff
Hammill (SP?) wrote a, uh, an article which I'm sure a number
of you read some time ago, uh, teachers and perfect tests and
their thesis was that every teacher good or bad, has limits on
the tolerability, on their on their tolerability on their, on
their capacity to accommodate differences in behavior and academic
performance. That a child's, uh, um, uh, uh, a child's difference
from, from the average, variance from the, from the average gets
to a point where, the kid crosses a red line. And the child is
no longer seen as a legitimate member of the class but beyond
the pale. I think what they're describing in part in that paper
is how a difference in degree transforms, morphs at some point
into a difference in kind. So, I would argue that the quantitative
differences that we found in the meta-analysis, uh, suggest that
on average, um, these kids with the label, um, are, different,
that is, weaker students than children without the label. That
teachers are, uh, in a sense doing the right thing. They are
identifying the kids whom they believe rightly or wrongly, uh,
are beyond their capacity. And are seeking additional help for
them.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
Okay next. Um, if we if we think that, uh, and, and now, this
is heuristic. Okay? Now the rest of this is the (STAMMERS) the
last two or three minutes I've got, uh, I'm gonna put forth a
different way to think about, uh, LD definition. Uh, it's not,
it's not close to my heart. Um, uh, but I, I want to throw it
out in the spirit of, uh, we, we, we need to move forward. We
need to be, creative, imaginative, um, committed to finding better
ways of assessment and identification methods. And we need to
be empirical about it. And so here is one, one way to, one different
way to think. If, if, difference in degree is important, if,
uh, then, then, how about defining LD in terms of low achievement.
Lots of problems with IQ, lots of problems with IQ achievement
discrepancy, why not simply use, uh, achievement as the as the
LD marker? And that is indeed what several people have suggested.
Uh, Lorie Siegel (SP?) and Keith Sanovitch (SP?) and, uh, Peter
Sinon Shin (SP?) and others. Okay. If we were to do that, then,
um, the, the, the approach would look something like this.
DOUGLAS FUCHS
We, we pick a standard score of 90 or something, and all children
below that score are LD. Okay next. And cover up the bottom
one please. Thanks. Um, I would argue, uh, again, heuristically,
that, uh, we need more than, an, an achievement cutoff. We need
to continue to use an IQ score, not to produce an, an IQ achievement
discrepancy, with all of the attendant psychometric and conceptual
problems, but we need a, an IQ score to separate out children
with mental retardation from children with learning disabilities.
If we don't do so, then what okay. Then, um, we, we introduce
the potential of conceptual confusion, and, um, combining children
with mental retardation, IQs 40 to 50, with children whose IQs
are in the in the in the in the more average range, introduces
for teachers a heterogeneity that they're going to find extremely
difficult to cope with. So, um, I am going to, uh, stop there.
Um, I believe that the, that the, the value of the meta-analysis,
uh, is that it says to the field, that, um, uh, contrary to what
we heard in the 1980s, teachers, um, identification of children
with learning disabilities or the way that they designate the
LD label, is not arbitrary. It's rational, uh, it's predictable.
Um, and it also says I think to the, the criticisms that we heard
in the 1990s, that the two groups indeed are distinguishable and
that which distinguishes them, is important. That's it, thanks.
RENEE BRADLEY
Our first respondent is Doctor Donald Deshler who is professor
of special education in the Department Of Special Ed, and the
Director of Center For Research And Learning at the University
of Kansas. Dr. Deshler in conjunction with other staff at the
Center has developed and validated the strategic instruction model,
and learning strategies curriculum, as mechanisms for improving
the learning effectiveness of (WORD?) students, including those
with learning disabilities, and the instructional effectiveness
of teachers. Dr. Deshler has received numerous awards for outstanding
service to the field of learning disabilities. Our next respondent
is Dr. Louisa Moats. She has just completed a four year as project
director at the District Of Columbia site of the NICHD early interventions
project, a study headed by Dr. Barbara Foreman. She continues
as clinical assistant professor of pediatrics at the University
Of Texas Houston Health Science Center. Dr. Moats has authored
many articles and books on the topic of professional development
of teachers, of leading spelling disability and spelling instruction
and the relationship between language and literacy. Our next
respondent is Dr. Alba Ortiz, who is a professor in the Department
Of Special Education and Director of the Office Of Bilingual Education
at the University Of Texas at Austin. She is nationally recognized
as an expert on the education of linguistically and culturally
diverse learners with disabilities and is past president of CEC.
Our final respondent is Ann Kornblet. She is the parent of three
children with learning disabilities, she is past national president
of the Learning Disabilities Association, and has served in a
leadership role for children and adults with learning disabilities
on the local, state and national level for the past 20 years.
DONALD DESHLER
Thank you very much. It's indeed an honor to be able to be a
part of this summit and to have been able to review the work of
Doug and Lynn Fuchs and their colleagues. As many of you know
Doug and Lynn have been leading scholars in our field for nearly
two decades and this paper typifies the high quality of their
work and their thoughtful insights on the condition of learning
disabilities. Because of limited time, I will focus on only two
of the several significant and enlightening points raised or suggested
or implied in their paper. The issues that I raise are not criticisms,
but rather they are points or issues that their findings and other
papers at this conference (STAMMERS), uh, somewhat address that
clearly suggest that our field must, uh, consider in future research
and in the formulation of public policy. First issue that I'd
like to touch upon is the merit and or limitations of focusing
on the reading domain alone. Fuchs et al provide a compelling
rationale for focusing their meta-analysis on a very narrow or
rather narrow subset of reading behaviors.
DONALD DESHLER
Clearly, conducting a meta-analysis on all seven domains specified
in the LD definition, um, would be unreasonable because of the
magnitude of the task and the limited data that exist on certain
domains, in certain domain areas. However, the authors follow
what I believe has been an unintentional but potentially dangerous
practice that has become increasingly common among researchers
and commentators on learning disabilities during the past decade.
That is to make their research manageable and understandable
they study a relatively narrow subset of skill behaviors. For
example, uh, phonological awareness or another dimension of reading.
But then overgeneralize their conclusions to include the entirety
of the learning disabilities construct. The existence of a very
unique differences between, LD and low achieving students in other
domain areas is at least theoretically very likely. Until careful
work is done across each of the domain areas, it is important
to exercise caution to ensure that research findings are not inappropriately
over generalized. The likelihood of policy makers or practitioners
making hasty, or incorrect decisions based on limited data sets,
that have been over generalized is great. And the limitations
are not clearly and forcefully delineated. The second point that
I would like to address is, um, the role of a developmental perspective
and understanding the LD construct. Fuchs et al are to be commended
for acknowledging some of the developmental effects on the condition
of learning disabilities. Again, Doug didn't, in his limited
time, have opportunity to comment on many of the in kind differences
that their, that their research addressed. But their data has
underscored the importance of differing performing patterns at
different age levels. That is, students with LD became more discrepant
from low achieving peers as grade levels increased.
DONALD DESHLER
Early in the history of the LD field, most funding initiatives
were directed at younger students. This is back shortly after
the passage of 94142. With the assumption or hope that if treatment
was provided at a young age, many of the manifestations of the
LD would be (STAMMERS) minimized or avoided altogether in later
years. However, research has shown that adolescents and adults
with LD have, have enduring and unique characteristics that are
manifested in different ways as development and (WORD?) demands
change. In light of the increased problems experienced by older
students in their studies, Fuchs et al adds their voice to others,
especially those of the NIH team who have so effectively made
the case for early, (STAMMERS) early identification and intervention.
While these goals are important and laudable, there is a potential
danger in over-emphasizing early treatment at the expense of interventions
at later ages. That is, the call for these early intervention
efforts may be misinterpreted as implying that by doing the early
intervention, most of the problems presented by LD students will
be ameliorated. While this is certainly a desired outcome, it
is much more likely that the problems will persist and continue
to be manifested in older ages as well. Thus there are two reasons
for not putting all of the (SOUNDS LIKE) field's eggs, so to speak,
in the early identification and intervention basket. First, even
though an impressive array of (SOUNDS LIKE) reading interventions
have been developed for younger students, it is unlikely that
these methods will be successfully implemented to scale nationally,
given our school's poor record, track record, of implementing
educational innovation. I'm talking about across the board not
just in special education, that in the implementation of any type
of validated practice to scale nationally.
DONALD DESHLER
In spite of the effectiveness of existing set of interventions,
the problems of bringing any innovation to broad scale implementation
with (SOUNDS LIKE) fidelity is remote. Because of the enormous
challenge of effecting large scale implementation, there will
be many students who will not receive the intervention and will
move on to later grade with significant unaddressed deficits.
Second, if children with LD do receive quality intervention during
their early years, in all likelihood their disability will endure
into adolescence and adulthood. The need for equally effective
intervention strategies for these older students or individuals
is, um, is as great as if not greater than the need for intervention
for younger students because of all the emotional overlays that
generally emerge as individuals mature and continue to encounter
significant failure. Hence, it is critical that the LD field
has a research and intervention agenda that is (STAMMERS) designed
to address multiple aspects of the condition of LD across multiple
age ranges. As compelling as the case for early (STAMMERS) intervention
can be, if that case is made at the expense of addressing the
equally problematic and unique set of problems presented by older
age individuals, the long term effects of such a policy will be
devastating for thousands of individuals with LD.
DONALD DESHLER
In conclusion, the Fuchs have made significant contributions to
our understanding of an important reading dynamic among students
labeled as LD. Their argument of, um, and data of differences
in kind and degree is compelling and will provide very helpful
direction for future research. However, in order to fully answer
the question posed by their title, Is LD Real, similar research
is needed in domains other than reading and across the age continuum
because LD is a very complex (STAMMERS) multi-dimensional construct.
Thank you. (APPLAUSE)
LOUISA MOATS
I'm one of the group and, um, I have a lot to say in response
to Doug's presentation. I'm going to say a few things about the,
um, meta-analysis and Doug's characterization of the NICHD research
and then branch out and say a few other things that I think need
to be said. And I like Doug very much, however, there are some
misconceptions we need to correct and I'm sure in the discussion
more of these points will come up. But for one thing, the research
network that I have been privileged to be a part of is studying
ever aspect of development learning disabilities, not just reading.
I would prefer we were talking about spelling and writing and
language myself, um, however, um, um, there's just, um, a time
limitation here and we've made much more progress in one area
than some others, but we are ready to propose other characterizations,
other classifications for, um, the broad range of learning disorders.
Okay, second, um, um, I and others are not proposing that, um,
the LD category be, um, displaced or, um, or, or replaced or removed,
um, um, in favor of some other broader treatment of reading disorders
that represents a throwback to the REI. This is not the way we
conceptualize our proposals. The leading critics of IQ discrepancy
formulas such as Linda Segal (SP?), Keith Stanovich, Reed Lion,
Jack Fletcher, Frank Vellutino and others have not called for
elimination of the LD category and with the exception of Segal,
do not endorse a simple low achievement definition. Instead,
they are asking the field to confront and change in ineffective
discriminatory and scientifically indefensible policies and practices
that have emanated from current conceptions of LD, reasons that
are not contradicted by the results of the Fuchs analysis. Um,
there are two other recent (WORD?) analyses conducted, um, one
conducted by Hoskin (SP?) and Swanson, another by Steubing (SP?),
Fletcher, LeDoux (SP?), Lion, Chalitz (SP?) and Chalitz (SP?),
that were designed to address related but similar, but dissimilar
questions about the relationship between kids who, um, meet the
discrepancy criteria and poor readers who do not. The question
that they addressed are, um, is this. Are discrepancy based definitions
of reading disabilities and low achieving readers valid for classification
purposes? Are poor readers without IQ achievement discrepancies
and poor readers with IQ discrepancies different from one another
with regard to the core cognitive deficits that predict and explain
poor reading? And are long term outcomes different for these
groups? Um, to be brief, uh, these (SOUNDS LIKE) meta-analyses
were done differently. They were done with (WORD?) cutoff scores
as Doug mentioned. Um, um, and, and in essence, the other meta-analyses
found negligible differences between LD in low achieving groups
for behavior, for achievement and a small difference in cognitive
ability, um, which you would expect because the LD kids are classified
on the basis of discrepancy or higher IQ.
LOUISA MOATS
Um, in essence, these other meta-analyses have concluded there
is little evidence to support the validity or relevance of the
two group classification of poor readers for either identification
or treatment, echoing many consensus based (WORD?) (SOUNDS LIKE)
to these issues. We're not attacking the legitimacy of the LD
category, um, instead, we're asking for changes in a number of
areas that will take the pressure of LD services in the LD category
to serve every poor reader who is out there. Um, what we'd like
to see change would be this. Number one, use of valid practices
in the regular classroom. We need instruction that emphasizes
critical components at critical times beginning in pre-K and K
and that reduces the incidence of reading failure that requires
special services. Secondly, we need to use, um, assessment and
classification practices that are valid. The relevant variables
for classification of reading disorder are phonological awareness,
phonological memory, rapid naming, vocabulary, speed and accuracy
of real and non-word reading and oral passage reading fluency.
We agree that fluency is a major issue that differentiates subtypes
of poor readers. Spelling, writing and oral language comprehension
must be added to this list. Children have to be screened early
and screened several times and so forth. This has been talked
about ad nauseam. It is however, um, the exception and not the
norm that these practices are in place. Third, we need incentives
for early intervention. Education funding should be structured
so that children can be served without delays and the hurdles
through special education eligibility. Too many children have
failed unnecessarily before services are ever provided. For example,
the formality of an IMP might be delayed until fourth grade if
intensive instruction is being carried out with good results.
If a student is not receiving appropriate instruction that results
in satisfactory improvement, parents and guardians should be asking
and, um, uh, should be asking for and receive, now this is radical,
a reasonable stipend for clinic-based, Internet-based or university-based
services of their choice. At present, parents who can afford
such services take them. Lower SES parents cannot exercise choice
so easily. This inequity needs to change.
LOUISA MOATS
And fourth, my swan song, the preparation of reading teachers
with skills and structured language teaching needs to be a priority.
Right now, um, special education teachers don't even have to
know how to treat the more severe reading disorders that they
are confronted with on 85 percent of their caseload. Reading
teachers who specialize in explicit structured teaching of language
must be recruited and prepared and supported by public education.
If they are not, parents will continue to press for the right
to such services provided by private practitioners at public expense.
At present, licensing standards and professional regulation for
academic language therapists that include course work, supervision,
documented effectiveness and continuing education requirements
have been developed almost exclusively in the private sector by
professional associations and institutes such as (SOUNDS LIKE)
SLEC, which is the (STAMMERS) Structured Language Education Council.
And these groups should be given more say in the licensing of
public reading and special education teachers whose professional
preparation has yet to reflect our growing knowledge of the causes,
correlates, consequences and treatments of language based learning
disabilities. Thank you. (APPLAUSE)
ALBA ORTIZ
Good morning. I think the work that Doug and his colleagues,
um, have done represents scholarship of a quality that is rarely
seen, um, in the Academy. And so I too would like to, um, commend
them for that work. The clarity with which they, um, present
the issues, discuss the, the design analysis, um, in their findings,
make this a document that's gonna be easily accessible and understandable
to both researchers and, um, practitioners. And so I think the
report provides an excellent vehicle to consider the, um, question
of how you distinguish low achievement and learning disabilities
and a way to, um, consider the different points of view particularly
in terms of how you define and identify the population. I think
that we all agree with Doug that LD is not just a fancy term for
low achievement.
ALBA ORTIZ
We were asked to raise issues that were not addressed in, in this
paper and other papers presented at this conference. And so I'd
like to focus my remarks on the population that I work with and
the applicability of this work that culturally and (SOUNDS LIKE)
linguistically diverse learners. And particularly the English
language learners which is the currently preferred training for
students that we typically have referred to as (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
position as students who acquire English as their second, um,
language. In doing so I want to upfront that this is not an issue
that was treated in Doug's paper and that's because of the status
of the field, um, in terms of research and (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
And that's precisely why I raise the issue. When experts like,
um, Doug and others make recommendations to the field, people
take them with great seriousness and so sometimes there is a danger
of overgeneralizing the findings. And so I'd like to just very
quickly touch base on some of the key, um, points that were made
in this paper. One of them is the importance of, um, comparability
of samples in that the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) (SOUNDS LIKE) sizes differ
depending on how (STAMMERS) comparable the, um, low achieving
and learning disabled, um, groups were.
ALBA ORTIZ
This is an important recommendation, um, given the, that demographic
information helps the consumers of research, um, judge the applicability
of the work to particular populations. It's also, I think, particularly
critical given the remarks that, um, Secretary Paige and Assistant
Secretary Pasternak made yesterday about the changing demography
and the over-identification of, um, culturally and (WORD?) diverse
learners in this group. And LD for English language learners
is the favorite placement category along with speech and language,
um, (SOUNDS LIKE) services. And yet there is very little research
on how English language learners learn to read in their native
language or in English as the second language. And the research
on students with learning disabilities is virtually (STAMMERS)
non-existent. Um, because so many of you are researchers, then
I guess my plea would be that you include these students in your
studies. Um, one of, another important recommendation or finding
is that the performance of students with learning disabilities
is lowering initially and becomes more discrepant over time.
And this pair of findings I think reinforces the importance of,
um, identification or early identification and prevention. In
reality, general education's failure to intervene in a timely
and appropriate manner as Dr. Moats suggests, not the presence
of the disability, may be the real source of student difficulties.
Thus committing resources to prevention and early intervention
makes sense. The thing that is problematic I think is that it's
very difficult to, um, point to concrete examples of, um, intervention
and prevention programs that are effective for all, um, learners.
And it's difficult to access information easily that describes
how such efforts are designed and launched, and I think more importantly,
sustained over time and the resources that are required to, um,
implement these efforts. The field, I think, is in desperate
need of this kind of, of information.
ALBA ORTIZ
Time tests measure reading competence more accurately. Um, time
tests may measure overall reading competence, particularly because
of findings associated with areas such as, um, rapid naming.
This recommendation poses two issues for, um, English language
learners. One is that there is a lack of appropriate instruments
to assess reading performance, not to mention of course the issues
related to IQ. And so it would be difficult to implement, um,
this recommendation given the lack of assessments of reading in
languages other than English or in English as a second language,
um, literacy. And using time tests with students who are limited
in their English efficiency, um, is not appropriate. So I think
we need to, um, put pressure on publishing companies and state
Departments Of Education to make appropriate instruments, um,
available. And as Doug suggested, it's important to conduct research
on what interventions help students transition more effectively
from automatic word, um, reading, um, from accurate to automatic
word reading. Objective measures are more accurate than teacher
judgement. And so this is the double whammy for English learners.
We not only have a lack of appropriate instruments, but as Doug
found, uh, in general, uh, there are variables that influence,
other than the performance measures, that influence, uh, teacher
and multi-disciplinary team judgements.
ALBA ORTIZ
The work that we have done clearly show that teachers are clearly
unable to distinguish students who are experiencing difficulty
because of their limited English proficiency from students who
truly do have, um, speech and language or learning, um, disabilities.
So there's a need to study the types of non-objective data can
be useful in decision-making. As important, I think we continue
to need systems that help, um, document prevention and early intervention.
(WORD?) that help monitor reading acquisition over time and that
help teachers in (STAMMERS) multi-disciplinary team, um, members
weigh the evidence. (STAMMERS) you know how we, uh, accumulate
all this information do you make sense of it. Um, Doug, I think
makes a good point that there are children who need, um, special
education services and also reinforces the need to link more effectively
with general education. I think we are hampered by, um, a standardization
of the education process, grade levels accountability systems,
etc. So we need to figure out how we may develop different general
education structures to help, um, struggling, um, learners. Last
point is, um, obviously that there is the need for teacher training.
Dr. Moats made that point very effectively. I guess I would
just like to add to that that we can't reform teacher education
until we reform higher education and as we call for different
kinds of teacher training. We need to think about how we can
support higher education faculties so that they can develop the
new set of skills that are required to serve an increasingly diverse
population. Thank you. (APPLAUSE)
ANN KORNBLET
Good morning. This is not a scholarly response so I'm going to
ask the timer to hold me, I will just stop when, um, it is time
to stop. I feel, um, with Jack sitting right here, I feel the
antsy-ness of needing to get on to the question and answer section.
Um, as a parent of children with learning disabilities, I was
hopeful, when (WORD?) started the process to process to open discussion
on the identification and assessment of learning disabilities.
As we gear up for another re-authorization of the law that protects
our children, it is evident that once again it will be a task
of supreme effort. So the discussion at OSEP with their work
group in proceeding to gather the most current information on
the key issues surrounding learning disabilities (STAMMERS) especially
on target. We who have been through the re-authorization process
before know that various forces and special interests begin to
nip at real or perceived problems, position their organizations
and special interests long before the actual re-authorization
process begins. With the (STAMMERS) numbers in the LD category
continuing to grow for a variety of reasons, this time around
we are facing the questioning of the validity of the condition
itself. We cannot be distracted from protecting the rights of
students with learning disabilities, from protecting, uh, the
need for early identification, protecting the complete (STAMMERS)
continuum of appropriate services, from protecting access to general
education and (STAMMERS) sorry, I'm trying to rush, um, and of
course the need for, um, better, um, professional preparation.
It is hoped that from the White paper, from surrounding discussions
that a basis for understanding, coordinated efforts and (STAMMERS)
thoughtful change will emerge.
ANN KORNBLET
In their White paper, Fuchs and Al have taken an extensive look
at the research on basic reading performance and students with
learning disabilities and students named low achievers. With
the current interest in reading and the surrounding controversy
on why some children are not learning to read and the reading
research being used as a tool to make and/or change policy, this
White paper analysis, because it uses reading studies, could provide
a strong answer to low achievement equals LD. The authors give,
um, an excellent historical overview of the discussions surrounding
the condition of learning disabilities and its definition. During
the reading, it was necessary for me do distinguish between the
terms definition and condition. Being concerned with the defining
of the condition, but understanding that the definition is not
the condition. Webster's Dictionary states and defines definition
as the act of defining a brief and precise description of a thing
by its properties. It defines condition as a particular mode
of being, a situation, a state, that which is (STAMMERS) requisite
for something else to take place or happen, unquote.
ANN KORNBLET
The condition that is termed learning disabilities goes beyond
the a description of the presentation of academic symptoms that
occur at a point in time, unless it is understood that those symptoms
are the result of dysfunction over time and are broader than the
manifestation of academic deficits. The white paper reviews the
changes that occurred in the field in the '80s with the appearance
of a regular education initiative and with it the damaging term
mild disability (STAMMERS) used to describe learning disabilities.
This is also a time when the different definitions of learning
disabilities were looked at with implementation (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
being quite different from the law and intent. Schools unable
to address the problems of diversity, overcrowded classrooms and
not adjusting to the needs of children growing up in a fast-changing
society, these same schools and communities (STAMMERS) did not
support, are not supporting and training teachers for this new
kind of student. Began shifting more and more children into special
education. It was a also a time when dramatic generalized statements
about inconclusive research was seen more in the journals. And
critics of special education were able to widen the factions within
the LD field. A bright spot was OSEP's funded research centers
that developed and disseminated strategies on how to teach students
with learning disabilities. There was much support for professional
preparation in service. LD research must become a priority within
the Department Of Education again. The next section of the white
paper summarizes the role NICHD and its research centers played
in, quote, encouraging fundamental change in our thinking about
LD, unquote. Everyone in this room is aware of the importance
of the work that has come out of the NICHD LD Centers. How ever
research has been used, misused, quoted or misquoted is another
discussion. NICHD has brought to the attention of the public
the problems in our classrooms in beginning and early reading.
We cannot praise NICHD enough for this accomplish.
ANN KORNBLET
In the discussion on low achievement and learning disabilities
cited in the white paper, it becomes apparent that sound bites,
volatile phrases and generalizations do not answer the questions
that need to be answered. We must not assume that low achievement
and learning disabilities are the same only because each group
responds with same basic reading skill training. The difference
(WORD?) Fuchs et al and, um, Don Deshler listed this morning,
um, points this out. Surely by now the field and the public understand
that learning disabilities does not mean a present and/or future
of low achievement and failure. The history and discussions set
the stage for the full description of this meta-analyses. It
was, um, (SOUNDS LIKE) beyond me how they waded through all this
research, um, with different studies, using different tests, different
definitions and (SOUNDS LIKE) samples defined in assorted ways.
I believe the conclusions of this study must be stated in stronger
language. From this (WORD?) and the following discussion must
come plans for research wider in scope. The discussion of learning
disabilities cannot center around early reading alone. The discussion
of eligibility criteria must encompass all factors that are used
or should be used in the diagnosis of learning disabilities.
It is most important that all children who need (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
Um, it is most important that all children who need help in
school receive it. It is inappropriate to send all children who
need help in school to special education. It is not right to
suggest that students with learning disabilities no longer need
the guidance a true diagnosis gives. It is inappropriate to suggest
that students with learning disabilities will receive the support
they need from general education in its present form.
ANN KORNBLET
We cannot afford to (WORD?) the category of learning disabilities
as described by definition in our Federal law. The regulations
and their implementation must be changed to reflect what is known
now. I'm almost there. (STAMMERS) Change, um, must not happen
based on generalizations as you cannot generalize a child, you
cannot generalize, um, the differences in our states and in our
school systems. I believe (STAMMERS) we will be able to work
together. (SOUNDS LIKE) I won't do this again the third time
(WORD?) Um, I believe that general education, special education,
um, will, um, work together. Through the reading research I firmly
believe that this will be the bridge that opens the doors, um,
and the two systems will, um, start to change education in this
country. Thank you. (APPLAUSE)
[END OF TAPE]